In an interview with the Egyptian weekly October, Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud 'Abbas stated that he aims to achieve a peace settlement within the framework of the Arab Peace Initiative - which he said includes a just and agreed-upon solution for the Palestinian refugee problem. [1] 'Abbas clarified that he cannot not tell the Palestinian refugees to return to Israel, but that he could not prevent them from doing so either.
Also in the interview, 'Abbas stated that there is no incitement in the Palestinian Authority, and that he is was willing to renew the activity of the commission on incitement provided that Israel would work to prevent incitement as well. He said that he doesn't care what Israel calls itself - i.e. whether it uses the term "Jewish state" or not - but that as far as he is concerned, he will call it Israel. He stated that he is not pessimistic regarding renewing negotiations with Israel, because Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has in the past signed agreements with the Palestinians.
'Abbas revealed that he had opposed Hamas's proposal to postpone elections for two years in exchange for an extension of his term as PA president, and at the same time stated that Hamas political bureau head Khaled Mash'al's June 25, 2009 speech [2] was evidence of Hamas's pragmatism following changes in the global political map. He also stated that Syria is interested in peace and dialogue with the U.S., and that it is in favor of demanding that Hamas recognize the Quartet's conditions so that the siege on Gaza would be lifted.
Following are translated excerpts from the interview:
The Palestinians Aren't Setting Preconditions - But Are Only Demanding the Implementation of the Road Map
Question: "Do you expect Netanyahu to capitulate to the international pressure and to America's insistence on the two-state solution?"
'Abbas: "To date, there has been no backing down from or change to [U.S. President Barack Obama's] statements regarding the two states and the Israeli settlements. Something important that the Americans have said several times is 'don't set preconditions so as not to frighten the Israelis.' We replied that we had no conditions, but wanted to enter into peace talks. What you call preconditions, [we said,] are merely the requests and obligations in the 2002 Road Map, which are based on the 2001 Mitchell Commission. They [the Americans] examined the situation and agreed that there would be Palestinian, Israeli, and Arab obligations. The Israeli obligations were: recognition of a Palestinian state; a halt to all [construction] activity in the settlements, including construction for natural growth; removal of the outposts; reopening 11 [PLO] offices in Jerusalem [closed by Israel]; and a return to the lines of September 28, 2000 [i.e. the pre-Al-Aqsa Intifada situation, when IDF forces were outside A areas]. The Palestinians were asked to preserve security and to recognize the State of Israel."
We're Willing to Renew the Commission on Incitement
"We have implemented [our obligation to preserve] security like no one else has, and we have recognized Israel. With regard to the issue of incitement, there has been some confusion. A tripartite Palestinian-Israeli-American commission was formed to examine all areas of incitement by the Israelis and by the Palestinians. I am willing for the commission to begin operating again, and I will remove [any show] of incitement, even though I am convinced that there are no Palestinian calls for fanaticism. But at the same time it must be ascertained that the Israeli side will do likewise. As far as we are concerned, there is no [incitement on our side]; however, Israel has not yet begun to do anything [regarding its incitement].
Talks with Olmert Produced No Results
Question: "There are Israeli leaks regarding a concession in the Palestinian position on the issue of Jerusalem. [What is your response?]"
'Abbas: "The one who said that was [former Israeli prime minister Ehud] Olmert. From Annapolis until the end of his term, negotiations over borders, Jerusalem, and the refugees continued, but no results were achieved...
"Olmert said: 'I have an idea regarding the Holy Basin.' There is a difference between saying the Holy Basin and putting things on the [negotiating] table [that is, talking specifically about the entire area of the Holy Basin]. Olmert placed a proposal on the table and he spoke of the Haram [Al-Sharif], the Mount of Olives, and the cemetery, and said: 'All this area is the Holy Basin. We propose that it be overseen by an international committee.' [He said this] even though the idea of an international committee was proposed originally at Camp David and in the 1947 Partition Resolution. This is why I say that there is a difference between saying that this is the Haram and the Holy Basin, and that a commission should be established on this basis, and saying that only what is placed on the negotiating table is regarded as the Holy Basin. In the end, we did not agree on anything.
"We discussed all the issues without exception: borders, settlements, security, the right of return, water, and other painful subjects. We didn't forget anything. The only issue we agreed on was security, which was entrusted to [then U.S. envoy to the Middle East General] Jim Jones, who worked with us for a year and presented important ideas in order to assure the security of Palestine when an independent state will be established. Afterwards, the idea arose of a third party in the negotiations. I spoke with Olmert about this, and he proposed Indonesia, or Malaysia, and I chose our allies the Americans. He told me that they would not consent. I said to him: Then we suggest our allies the Europeans. He said: You mean like in Lebanon? I replied, Yes, I have no problem with that, and I am willing to ally with NATO or [even with] Hell in order to arrive at solutions.
"Ultimately, we agreed on a version prepared by Jim Jones, and he presented it to Egypt and Jordan, because they are neighboring countries, and the draft remained with Jones, waiting for implementation. Overall, we never close a file, but it's difficult to go back to square one, or to restart negotiations after we have moved a long way ahead. "
The Jewish State and the Right of Return
Question: "This brings us to the issue of Israel as a Jewish state, which has recently arisen, [though] discussions about it already began in Annapolis."
'Abbas: "As early as 1949, Truman was asked to recognize a Jewish state, but he crossed those words out and wrote 'Israel.' The Partition Resolution mentions a Jewish state and an Arab state. Israel does not interest us, and its name doesn't interest us either. It can call itself whatever it wants, but I'll call it Israel. I don't want to get into details concerning Israel's society. They say that they have 1.5 million Arabs and half a million Russian Christians - that is, two million non-Jews out of five or six million people with Israeli citizenship - but it is impossible to know exactly how many Israelis there are because they [count] anyone with an Israeli passport. This was said at Annapolis, and that conference nearly failed, even though representatives of over 50 countries were participating in addition to the U.S.
"The Israeli side was forced to withdraw its request, and later withdrew it. I was amazed at how Israel selectively chooses a few sections from the Partition Resolution and rejects the others.
Question: "Does [the concept of] Israel as a Jewish state constitute an alternative to the national Zionist enterprise?"
'Abbas: "I maintain that the [Israelis'] main aim is to rid itself of non-Jews and to eliminate the [Palestinian] right of return. But the PA is determined regarding this right. I have five million refugees and I cannot tell them, 'Return to Israel, which you came out of.' I also cannot prevent them from doing so. The solution is negotiation [on the refugee issue] based on the Arab initiative, which called for a just and agreed solution...
"A senior Israeli official whom I don't want to name once told me: 'We can concede on the settlements in exchange for your concession on the right of return.' I told him: 'Let's discuss this. Aren't the settlements vital for you?' He said, 'Well.' I said: 'Inasmuch as they are not important, get out of them and let's get ready for another round of negotiations, which will deal only with the right of return, because this issue is vital to us.' He said: 'You've turned into a Jew.'
Question: "Mr. President, you are the current leader of the Palestinian people. What are the characteristics of your peace plan?"
'Abbas: "[The characteristics of our peace plan are] a return to our lands in all areas in the 1967 borders. We will not relinquish a single inch of the West Bank, whose area is over 6.2 thousand sq km. It is inconceivable to allow any country to be deprived of its territorial contiguity and its water sources. The settlements sit on top of natural [water] sources. I accused Olmert of greediness when he planned to take over 7.5% of the territories while the area of the settlements does not exceed 2.1%. In general, we do not agree to changing the 1967 borders. The West Bank must be connected to the Gaza Strip, and this was agreed during the Bush administration.
"Likewise, there is a need to discuss every issue, even the compensation for those who want to return and those who do not want to, and compensation for the countries that are hosting the refugees, such as Syria, Jordan, Iraq, and Egypt...
"We have proven that we are the main political partner in the peace process. We are conducting negotiations for peace and acting for peace. We believe that there is security, and recently there have been no any security incidents. The West Bank is completely quiet, and the public lives in tranquility and enjoys stability and security. We are meeting all requests as long as they serve the interests of our people. A few days ago, I met with a senior Israeli official who always said that Abu Mazen [i.e. I] would get 'a big fat nothing' - but this time he told me: 'Let me take my hat off to you. We never imagined that you would operate this way.' I replied: 'What I did was not for you, but for my people...'"
Netanyahu Already Signed Agreements with the Palestinians
"There are no real political contacts between us and the Netanyahu government, but there is daily contact regarding the lives of the residents, such as on leaving [the PA areas] for health reasons or for other reasons, and there is a minister in charge of this issue. Others hold talks on issues such as roadblocks and the economy. Likewise, a conference is expected to be held soon to discuss important economic issues, such as a solution to the problem of communication that has been at a standstill for three years, and also the construction of two hotels at the Dead Sea...
"I am not pessimistic, as some claim. Netanyahu himself signed the Wye River agreement and the Hebron agreement with us, and since the elections he has not had a chance to complete the peace process..."
Fatah Supports the Peace Process
Question: "Everyone is betting on the success of the Fatah Sixth General Congress, since Fatah is the backbone of the PLO and the PA and the mother organization of all the resistance [groups]. Will Fatah [stay on] the path of peace and preserve the enterprise of [establishing] the Palestinian state?"
'Abbas: "We think there has been no change in [Fatah's] policy - our positions are fixed. We support peace and the Arab initiative, the Road Map, and the continuation of the peace process until we achieve the two-state vision. All the Arabs and Muslims have given Israel an historic opportunity to gain the recognition of 57 Arab and Muslim countries, if it will agree to the Saudis' Arab Peace Initiative. If Israel misses this opportunity, its loss will be significant...
Question:"Mr. President, what is the real [nature of] the current relationship between the PA and Gaza?"
'Abbas: "Gaza is still under our control, as it was before the [Hamas] coup. We are still paying salaries and funding health, education, electricity and other vital [services]. Fifty eight percent of our budget goes to Gaza, and we will not stop [transferring the funds]. The people in the West Bank are not receiving more support from us than those in Gaza. On the contrary, [we are directing more support] to the Gazans, because certain services are being withheld from them, and their situation is dire. What we are doing [for them] is neither charity not a gift, it is our national duty towards these people, who are living in significant distress."
Question:"Now that your diplomatic national campaign for peace has received support [both] internationally and locally, will [the convention of] the Fatah Sixth General Congress be an opportunity to rebuild Fatah from within?"
'Abbas: "We do want to take advantage of the opportunity presented by this conference. Palestinian public opinion and Fatah support the peace process, after the beginning of the great retreat in the culture of war. Logic dictates that peace is preferable to a useless bullet or a missile that causes only destruction..."
Hamas Wanted to Postpone Elections in Exchange for an Extension of My Presidency
Question: "As president of the [PA], you bear a historic responsibility. Is it [not] time to conclude the 'marathon' of the intra-Palestinian dialogue?"
'Abbas: "I told the delegation for the [internal] Palestinian dialogue one thing: I will accept any Egyptian proposal that will end the siege, and I will sign it with my eyes closed. But it seems that the other side [i.e. Hamas] is satisfied with the schism. More than once, I have said that I will not choose a military solution to restore Gaza [to the PA], but that I am interested in it by means of dialogue... Let us reject all the problems and cling to one problem - the elections. Let us all go for elections.
"Some ask: How? Since it is not the government that is in charge of elections, but an election commission, I say: I call on our Arab brothers to participate in our elections by overseeing them. I also call on 10,000 international observers, including leading statesmen such as [Nelson] Mandela and [Jimmy] Carter to be involved. Let's see who wins and who is fit to rule. You must know that Hamas asked for the elections to be postponed for two years in exchange for an extension of my term [as Palestinian Authority president]. I rejected that. I want renewal, and I want the elections to be held on the date that was set..."
Hamas Is More Pragmatic Than It Once Was - Because the Political Map Has Changed
Question: "Do you not agree, Mr. President, that intra-Palestinian reconciliation is crucial and that it should not take so long to achieve it?"
'Abbas: "I agree. National conciliation must be achieved by [reaching] an agreement or [holding] elections. What happened in Lebanon is happening to us [now] as well. [On May 7, 2008, Hizbullah] took control of Beirut, and Lebanon was burned by the flames of [civil] war, just like Gaza, but the crisis was resolved by holding elections. When Hamas won the 2006 elections, I called on them to form a government. Although I am convinced that Hamas is opposed to peace, I do not see why they refuse to hold an election. They still have a chance to succeed and to form a new government, if they truly want to take this road."
Question: "Mr. President, there has been a change in the positions of [Hamas political bureau chief] Khaled Mash'al. He has become more moderate, agreeing to [the establishment of] a Palestinian state within the June 5, [1967] borders. How do you view this change?"
'Abbas: "I think that Khaled Mash'al has become convinced that moderate stances are the only way to arrive at solutions. I am certain that Hamas is not opposed to peace. Mash'al's most recent speech was moderate and pragmatic, and was written in toned-down language; we hope he continues on this path.
"There is no longer any difference between Fatah and Hamas. [Mash'al's] position is the same as mine; the only difference is that he calls himself religious, and I tell him that I am more religious than he is. But this has nothing to do with the religion, since the problem has a political aspect, not a religious aspect - after all, Islamic Jihad and the PFLP are against Mash'al's perception...
"The map has changed, both within and without, and this is the secret to the change in tone in statements by Hamas and its leaders..."
Question: "What is your opinion about Egypt's efforts [to bring about] a Palestinian reconciliation?"
'Abbas: "We all know that, throught history, Egypt's security has always begun in the north, and Egypt is careful [to maintain peace on its northern border]. It is acting for its own benefit and for ours, and so we appreciate its efforts. We notice that Egypt, thanks to its political wisdom, is displaying flexibility towards all the sides. Egypt is the one entrusted [with handling] of our cause. We rejected all other states as mediators, [for instance when] it was suggested that Turkey be involved in the negotiations. We made it clear that Egypt is the only state that knows how to manage the Israeli-Arab conflict."
Question: "What is your opinion about the attempts to malign Egypt [by accusing it of helping Israel during its war on Gaza]?"
'Abbas: "Some tried to reduce what happened in Gaza to the affair of the [Rafah] crossing. Everyone knows that the crossing can only be opened [as part of] an international agreement. Some tried to blame Egypt [for keeping it closed], and there were [certain] calls directed to the Egyptian military. [This refers to the call of Hizbullah Sec. Gen. Hassan Nasrallah, who urged the Egyptian military to rebel against its government's decisions]. Egypt's positions have always been clear and sincere. It aspires to peace and does not preach war or claim to be [preparing for] war. Furthermore, it does not claim, as others do, that it must be allowed to prepare for war, and then chicken out. I have already declared that I would chop off the hand and cut out the tongue of anyone seeking to harm Egypt. I am among the most enthusiastic supporters of the Camp David Accords."
The Syrians Want Peace, Inter-Arab Reconciliation
Question: "You recently visited Damascus. What sort of feeling did you get from President Bashar Al-Assad?"
'Abbas: "During my last visit to Damascus, I sensed that President Bashar Al-Assad was striving to reach peace with Israel, and to establish new relations with the U.S. The American envoy Mitchell and other American figures were there as well.
"Syria aspires to achieve Arab reconciliation as well, headed by Saudi Arabia. There is no doubt that the Palestinians' interest lies in good relations among Egypt, Syria, and Saudi Arabia. The Syrians have told us that the issue of dialogue is in the hands of Egypt, and that they will invest efforts in its success.
"We suggested to them that any [Palestinian] government would agree to the Quartet's conditions, and clarified that we are not demanding that Hamas recognize Israel, but only be bound by the Quartet's conditions, so that the siege will not continue - and the Syrians agreed to it all. I told them: 'You are a country that distinguishes between the Ba'th party and the obligations of the state, and we too have obligations.'
"Ultimatey, in Syria I found no refusal to talk with the U.S. and with Israel, and no refusal to inter-Arab reconciliation. Syria clearly accepts our ideas as the basis of the Palestinian interest. We are satisfied with [our] advancing relations with Syria, and we will not act towards any separate agreement - rather, we want a harmonious and united [Arab] nation."
"Flexibility in the Negotiations Is by No Means Tantamount to Compromising our Principles"
In a speech delivered at the Non-Allied Countries' summit July 15, 2009, 'Abbas discussed the political process, stating: "We support serious negotiations. We know that they will be difficult and complicated, and we will need your support to conduct them. Flexibility in the negotiations is by No Means Tantamount to Compromising our Principles. There will be no solution without the issues of Jerusalem, the refugees, and other issues pertaining to the final settlement." [3]
Endnotes:
[1] October (Egypt), July 12, 2009
[2] See MEMRI Special Dispatch Series No. 2428, "Hamas Political Bureau Head Khaled Mash'al: We Must Combine Resistance with Diplomacy," July 2, 2009, Hamas Political Bureau Head Khaled Mash'al: We Must Combine Resistance with Diplomacy
[3] Al-Hayat Al-Jadida (PA), July 16, 2009.
