Renowned Pakistani Actress Veena Malik Confronts Islamic Cleric after Being Accused of Disgracing Pakistan and Islam on Indian Reality TV Show: 'Pakistan is Infamous for Many Other Reasons than Veena Malik'; 'Why Just Veena Malik? Because Veena Malik is a Girl ... a Soft Target?'

Television anchor Kamran Shahid: [After introductory remarks] "We have Veena Malik at our show. Veena, a very warm welcome."

Veena Malik: "Thank you."

Television anchor: "How was your visit of India?"

Veena Malik: "It was very good. It involved too many things; it was very beautiful; it was terrible; it was exciting and emotional, and sad too. Just like that."

Television anchor: "What did you find the most beautiful thing, or man, in India?"

Veena Malik: "The love that those people gave me in the shape of nominating me seven times and voting me six times and kept me at the House [i.e. of Big Boss, the Indian version of Big Brother], which was a surprise, and I liked it."

Television anchor: "The decision to participate in the live show, because it generated a controversy to which I am coming now - how did you take that decision? What was on your mind while taking such a decision and going to a place [the Big Boss house] where there were hidden cameras which captured your every moment? What was the reason behind this decision?"

Veena Malik: "When I was offered to participate in the show, I was passing through a very bad phase in my life. I have been through hell; everyone knows. I wanted to take a break and go to a place where I would have no contacts with the rest of the world, and would not hear any word from the world, would not hear anything from anyone. When I first received the offer from the show, I refused because I wanted to go on leave. But when I was told about the format of the show and I saw it, then I felt that it would be a very good place for spending vacation where I will have no contacts with the rest of the world, and I could be able to collect myself. And when I went on the show, then definitely there were many other agendas which I had with me."

Television anchor: "There is an allegation on you made by a segment of Pakistani society that you brought dishonor upon Pakistani culture by going to India. Your dresses and your actions, as well as your interactions with the people there, did not represent the ideological foundations of Pakistan, its culture and its people. As an ambassador of Pakistan, do you regret your actions - if these allegations are true - or do you think the allegations are baseless?"

Veena Malik: "Look, these allegations are baseless, because according to the format of the 'Big Boss' show, celebrities, not only from Pakistan, but from all over the world, including Hollywood, participate in this show. It is not a cultural variety show which promotes a certain culture, or a religious show, where one is allowed to promote one's religion. You are not allowed to bring your religious books (onto the premises).

"The format of the show is such that it brings the famous people of the world who are famous for some reason. I was famous for my bravery in my country and I was contacted for that reason. And basically the format of the show is such that the world should know such a personality. Insofar as the talk of representing the Pakistani culture is concerned, who is a Pakistani – Sindhi, Baluchi, Pashto, Punjabi, and Seraiki? Nor do I work in an office that I could represent a working woman."

Television anchor: "Do you not think of Pakistan as a single entity?"

Veena Malik: "Pakistan is of course a single entity, but who I was representing was not a Sindhi, Baluchi, Punjabi, neither a Pathan nor a working woman of an office. It was the Veena Milk of the entertainment industry of Pakistan; and I represented the Veena Milk of the entertainment industry of Pakistan."

Television anchor: "Do you think the entertainment industry of Pakistan is obscene and vulgar…?"

Veena Malik: "What is the entertainment industry of Pakistan? Just have a click on the internet and you can find what the stage of Pakistan is, what the film of Pakistan is and what the fashion of Pakistan is.

"And if you want to say that I was naked, I was vulgar, or there was something like that - it was not like that. I wore the clothes on the show, which I used to wear before. If I were to cover my head with a dupatta [shoulder-head scarf, on the show], then you people would have also ridiculed me for being a Sati Savitri [good woman who works for her husband's happiness]."

Television anchor: "We would not accuse you, we would appreciate that."

Veena Malik: "The whole world [of Pakistan] would be blaming me even for that; and look, the matter of appreciation is that I was representing myself there; and I am like what I showed myself."

Television anchor: "You were not representing Pakistan, and you said you did not consider yourself as a cultural ambassador of Pakistan?"

Veena Malik: "Of course I said cultural ambassador. I told you that if I had to perform some cultural activity there, then it would not have been broadcast [here in Pakistan]. I was just representing myself there."

Islamic Cleric Mufti Abdul Qavi: "I Believe that On the One Hand, She was Negating the Two-Nation Theory [i.e. the Idea that Hindus and Muslims Cannot Live Together, Which Led to the Creation of Pakistan]; and On the Other Hand, She was Promoting Those Despicable Ideologies…"

Mufti Abdul Qavi on the left

Television anchor: "We have Mufti Abdul Qavi on the show who has earlier participated in our shows. Mufti Sahab, Assalam-o-Alaikum."

Mufti Abdul Qavi: "Walikum Assalam"

Television anchor: "Mufti Sahab, I am neutral over this issue about what my opinion is, I am not showing it now. What she did there I have no opinion on it, whether it was right or wrong. But you can express your opinion and you are also capable of issuing edicts about anyone. So, you are invited to represent the feelings of the people of Pakistan. First, respond to the discussion of Veena Malik, then my basic question of whether Veena Malik, as a Pakistani, brought disrespect upon Pakistan by going to India and by her actions there."

Mufti Abdul Qavi: "In the name of Allah, most Merciful, most Compassionate. First, I would like to welcome my sister upon her return to Pakistan."

Veena Malik: "Thank you."

Mufti Abdul Qavi: "What she has said certainly filled my heart with sadness, as well as the hearts of all Pakistanis who believe that she is among those Pakistanis who owe their fame to Pakistan. I believe that she was both challenging the Two-National Theory and promoting hollow ideologies, which are not appropriate for a famous and great person like her.

"I would request her that for God's sake, wherever she goes she must recognize her two identities and keep in mind the two facts she should go for representing, whether she goes to India or other countries. Wherever she goes she must have in mind her two identities: the first identity is that she is a Pakistani, whether she was born in Seraiki area or upper Punjab [the sentence is incomplete originally, cut short by the television anchor's interruption]."

Television anchor: "[Interrupts] Then what she should have done, should she have gone there wearing a veil for participation in the show? Does a Pakistani woman need to wear a veil for going to India? Do you think this would be good representation?"

Mufti Abdul Qavi: "No, no; I think that Islam is against monasticism. If God has blessed my sister [Veena Malik] with beauty and dazzle, and our Holy Prophet [Muhammad] said, 'My Allah is beautiful and likes those people who are beautiful.'

"And Islam is a complete code of life even for the expression of one's beauty and dazzle. Islam guides us for fulfilling natural needs and requirements; Islam has given us a complete code of life for the fulfillments of needs of body and soul."

Television anchor: "Do you have any question to ask her?"

Mufti Abdul Qavi: "I would tell her that if her conscience is alive, and certainly it would be alive because she is a Muslim and a Pakistani, I will request her to ask from her conscience, after seeing her pictures of what she has done, whether it's right or wrong?

"I am not saying what would be the response of her conscience, I believe that 180 million people [of Pakistan] believe that her conscientious response would be that what she has done was not right and she would say that what she had done was wrong."

Veena Malik: "Why Just Veena Malik? Because Veena Malik is a Girl…? Because Veena Malik is a Soft Target?"

Television anchor: "Keep your conscience before you and tell us what you had done was right or wrong?"

Veena Malik: "Why do you want to shoot holding the gun on my shoulder [i.e. using me as a scapegoat]? Have not Pakistani actresses worked in India before? Had not they worn a two-piece [bikini]? I have not even worn a two-piece."

Television anchor: "What did you wear there?"

Veena Malik: "I did not wear a two-piece at all; at best I wore shorts. By the way I want to tell the people – many of whom here misunderstood the situation – that many things were the part of the task, as it was the part of the task that we had to go to the swimming pool wearing shorts.

"And also that I and Ashmit Patel were sitting together at night was part of the task too. I did not do anything by my own liking." [Veena Malik and Ashmit Patel, an Indian/Hindu actor, were accused of cuddling by the Pakistani media.]

Television anchor: "If they ask you that you have to sleep at night [with him], then you will do that?"

Veena Malik: "Sleeping together was not [in the task]; it was sitting together, being awake, and we were awake, we sat."

Television anchor: "It means that you did not feel any burden on your conscience for what you have done? As the Mufti [Abdul Qavi] said, tell us by asking from your conscience."

Veena Malik: "I would feel a burden on my conscience if I had done anything wrong. I have not done anything wrong, I am just an entertainer; or if anyone can prove that while living in this country, I did anything against the law - whether the Islamic or state law - you can punish me for that."

Television anchor: "Mufti Sahab, first she does not feel any burden on her conscience and she says that what she did is happening in Pakistan, the short clothes she wore artists in Pakistan have been wearing [Veena Malik interjects and points out: 'fashion shows']. Mufti Sahab, what would you say about it?"

Mufti Abdul Qavi: "If she does not have pangs of conscience because of what she did, then I would tell her to awaken her conscience. No one in Pakistan can look at her pictures in the presence of their daughters. I don't think that her son will like to look at his mother's pictures in the future in her presence or in the presence of his father or brother."

Television anchor: "[Interrupts and turns to Veena Malik] Go ahead."

Veena Malik: "Mufti Sahab, first, I would like to respond to all your questions. As far as Islamic religion is concerned, Islam is a vast religion. Islam also means that I am the sole provider for my five sisters and my brother, and I have paid for their education.

"Also, as long as you are talking about Islam, let me tell you that you are not allowed to set eyes on me in my present condition. You should be punished in public because charity begins at home. And all clerics can cast first sight at a woman, but if they look at her a second time, they must be punished. You deserve to be punished, because you are not allowed to look at me in this condition.

"Second, if you want to do something for the glory of Islam, you have plenty of opportunities. What are politicians doing? Bribery, robbery, theft and killing in the name of Islam. There are many things to talk about. Why Veena Malik? Because Veena Malik is a woman? Because Veena Malik is a soft target for you? What has Veena Malik done? Did Veena Malik kiss? Did Veena Malik wear shorter clothes than Pakistani actresses wore in India in the past? Why Veena Malik, Mufti Sahab? There are many others things for you to deal with. There are Islamic clerics who rape the same children they teach in their mosques and so much more.

"Pakistan is infamous for many other reasons than Veena Malik. Veena Malik is into entertainment, and believe me I have done 10,000 good deeds and my people have not supported me in this."

Mufti Abdul Qavi: "Being a Muslim and a Pakistani, Don't Do Anything Which You Can Not Watch in the Presence of Your Family Members"

From the program

Veena Malik: "[Continuing from the previous statement and now turning to the television anchor] Since you set up a court here, I demand that the court dispense justice. I am more angry with you people than you are with me. If I am made accountable by you people, then you too must answer my questions.

"[Now turning to Mufti Abdul Qavi] Mufti Sahab, there are many things in your community that need to be rectified, so please correct them. Veena Malik and the entertainment industry are much further down the list."

Mufti Abdul Qavi: "Respected Veena Malik Sahiba, I told you earlier that you are my sister, and there is no need to get so emotional. Every person plays a role."

Veena Malik: "If there are immoral people in the show business, there may also be immoral people among the clerics… Mufti Sahab, I remember when you once called a woman 'shameless.' If you are indeed spreading the Islam of the Prophet, peace be upon him, then you should know that the prophet would stand up out of respect whenever a woman walked in. He never called them 'shameless.' You should begin by reforming your own home and only then ask me to do the same. I am a Muslim and I have done many good deeds; you have to listen to know about them [the conversation interrupted by both the people]."

Mufti Abdul Qavi: "I declared you my sister and you are very respectable for me as a sister. I just want to ask you if God gives you a son, would you be able to look at these pictures in the presence of your son. Can you look at these pictures in the presence of your father? Can you look at them in the presence of your real brother? I very humbly request you that you are my sister, so don't get emotional. If somebody has a bad character being a cleric, then I will also condemn him. If a cleric has been involved in corrupt role, I would call it wrong."

Veena Malik: "[Interrupts] Mufti Sahab, which pictures are you talking about? You may have some misunderstanding; show me those pictures, as I also want to see those pictures."

Mufti Abdul Qavi: "Listen to me very carefully; you are very respectable person... I have called you a sister. Do not talk like this to me about Maulviat [function of clerics]. All Praise Be to Allah! I respect you being a sister. And I told you in the beginning that Allah has blessed you with beauty and dazzle…; for God's sake, being a Muslim and a Pakistani, don't do anything which you cannot watch in the presence of your family members."

Veena Malik: "Mufti Sahab, watch all the episodes of Big Boss. I haven't done anything wrong. You must have some misunderstanding…"

Maulvi Abdul Qavi: "I Did Not See [the show]; 100 Percent of [Pakistanis] Think that You have Disgraced Pakistan [and] Islam"

Veena Malik: "I would like to ask a question to Mufti Sahab. I want to ask him - where did he see the beauty and dazzle of his sister Veena Malik [since Islam does not permit a man to cast a second look at a woman]?"

Mufti Abdul Qavi: "Let me say clearly that in the Holy Koran, where orders have been stated for us with regard to casting a look at the face [of a woman], permission is granted."

Veena Malik: "[Interjecting:] The first look; you cannot cast a second look..."

Mufti Abdul Qavi: "With much courage and accuracy I say tthat so far I have not seen my sister's face on television or in newspapers. Since I am a public personality, and since educated persons and public personalities keep in touch with me, I came to know through them that Allah has granted beauty and dazzle to my sister.

"What does her conscience say: whatever she does, that she goes and sleeps next to someone; she expressed her skills inside some dress [e.g. a quilt], she entered inside a bed with some man not permitted [by Islam] - I want to ask her as per humanity and Islam whether it is dignity or shamelessness? With much courage, I want to say that – Praise Be to Allah! –11 times I have visited India. I have many friends there,both Muslims and Hindus. They telephoned me that Veena Malik's role has saddened the hearts of 220 million Muslims there; Muslims' heads are down in shame…

"I am representing… [unclear] million people of Pakistan. They think that the role played by Veena Malik was so dangerous [culturally and religiously] that to call her a Pakistani or a Muslim is a disgrace to Pakistanism and Islam… I am not talking on my own; I am talking about those youth who come and tell me about those programs…"

Veena Malik: "Mufti Sahab, what does your Islam teach you? Does it teach you to issue edicts on the basis of rumors? You started to talk about a girl without even seeing what she had done. So what if people say - what does your Islam say? What do you say? Have you seen me…?

"Show me a single picture of me doing something inappropriate..."

Mufti Abdul Qavi: "Listen to me. Let me tell you that I did not watch the show. But there are millions of Pakistanis who watched what you did and all 100% of them think that you have disgraced Pakistan, as well as Islam…"

Veena Malik: "Mufti Sahab, you are wrong…"

"Pamela Anderson… [Said on Big Boss that] Because Veena Malik is Doing Social Work for Pakistan, She [Pamela] Wants to Do Social Work in Pakistan"

Veena Malik offering Islamic prayer on Big Boss (image in sitting position)

Television anchor: "Veena Malik has protested against the Pakistani media and us; she gave us a video and said that Pakistani media has not shown the clip in which she was praying."

[The clip is shown]

Television anchor: "We have Indian star Ashmit [Patel] who was with Veena Malik in the [Big Boss] House, which led to the development of many controversies in Pakistan. Ashmit, do you know how problematic it was, and it is still creating problems for Veena Malik, as many people in Pakistan criticize her conduct? Or do you think what she did was right, keeping in mind the Pakistani culture?"

Actor Ashmit Patel: "I think what she did inside the house is not considered as an offense in any country, and I think no one should take offense because she was within her limits."

Television anchor: "She says that she made you offer prayer."

Ashmit Patel: "Yes, true; and she herself would pray daily. Every night before going to bed, she would perform her prayer, and apparently she did not show it to others."

Television anchor: "But what was the reason for you to offer [Islamic] prayer? Were you impressed by the prayer or Veena Malik? Do you know Arabic, or you just followed her acts?"

Ashmit Patel: "She would do that daily; so I developed interest in what one feels when doing it."

Television anchor: "Then how did you find and understand the philosophy of the prayer?"

Ashmit Patel: "I do yoga and do not believe in religion, but respect all religions. I try to understand everything about every religion and the posture of performance of Islamic prayer quite resembles the practice of a yogi [one who performs yoga]."

Television anchor: "Then you performed prayer out of respect for religion, and secondly believing it as yoga."

Ashmit Patel: "Not considering it as yoga. I did it out of respect for the religion [of Islam]. I wanted to know what the feelings are when one performs prayers."

Television anchor: "Then how did you feel when you prayed?"

Ashmit Patel: "It was very good; I felt at peace and that night I slept like a child and the feeling was very positive and good."

Television anchor: "So, Ashmit, please be with us on the line, because she has claimed that she made you perform prayer and we did not have proof, but you testified in support of her claim. So be with us; we have a cleric and he will talk now."

Television anchor: "Mufti Sahab, did you hear that she projected Pakistani culture there and also made Ashmit perform prayers. What do you say now?"

Mufti Abdul Qavi: "Look, the situation is that our Hindu brother performed Islamic prayer, but being a Hindu he is not duty bound to offer Islamic prayers. Only those people who recite the Kalima [words to accept Islam as one's religion] are duty bound to pray. He admitted that he prayed just because it is a good exercise, just as every individual does exercise for keeping themselves fit. So, he did this rehearsal for his physical fitness. Then he said that he wanted to know how prayer gives peace of mind; so our sister Veena Malik invited him for this action, which is a commendable act.

"Don't you feel ashamed that you brought disrespect for Pakistan in India?"

Veena Malik: "I know about the culture of India, and I also know what is the culture of my Pakistan. As Ashmit said. the whole world can see all what I did… and will find that I have not done anything over which I should feel ashamed.

"I just have the complaint for my people that you people just talk; and [celebrated Indian Muslim actor] Salman Khan told me that, 'Veena, you taught Urdu to the whole of India.' Tell me how many programs you broadcast on this topic that I taught Indian how to speak Urdu.

"Pamela Anderson, who is a very big Hollywood star, when she was leaving the show and Salman asked her who would she would remain in contact with, she said that that because Veena Malik does social work for Pakistan, she would like to do social work in Pakistan. Now, tell me how many programs you did on this aspect of my role…

"When at the beginning of the program Shweta used very dirty words against my character – where were my people, where was the media? When Rahul voted for me just for being a Pakistani, where were my people, where was the media? When Manoj Tiwari was hurling dirty abuse at me, where were my people, where was my media?

"You saw the footage; didn't you see how much love I gave to every person in the house; watch from the first day to the last, I gave love to everyone in the house just to show that those people do not represent Pakistanis… Those people whose passports turn out to be Pakistani when a terror attack takes place… There are also Pakistanis like us, who enjoy entertainment, fun, and love.

"Why can't you not understand that I belonged to an entertainment industry; I had gone there with my agenda. What did I do there, due to which my country was dishonored? Don't I know what my limits are? Don't I know what message I am carrying to India…? Today, you have constituted this court; a court is something that delivers justice. With much interest, you constituted a court, you delivered a torrent of allegations against me. Every man stood here and leveled allegations against me.

"Did you at any point stand beside me and appreciate me? Why? Just because I am a woman in a male-oriented society? Tell me what does not take place in this society – see internet clips; go and see what deeds take place in upper class; what girls in colleges do and what takes place, what doesn't take place. The world has become a global village; do you think we don't know what is happening in our homes; why can we not move beyond these things. Why can we not spread love, peace and harmony in our relationship? Why just war? …"

Endnote:

[1] The television talk show, conducted in Urdu, can be viewed by viewed at the following YouTube link: http://pkpolitics.com/2011/01/22/front-line-21-january-2011/.