In a June 20, 2011 interview with the Lebanese TV Channel LBC, Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud 'Abbas said that it was his prerogative to nominate the next prime minister, and that Salam Fayyad was the right man for the job.[1] He also expressed opposition to an armed intifada, saying that even if the PA were to fail in its bid to obtain U.N. recognition of an independent Palestinian state in September, the PLO would not return to armed struggle.
The following are excerpts from the interview:
Salam Fayyad Will Be the Next PM
About the soon-to-be-established Palestinian interim government, 'Abbas said: "The interim government will serve for 10 or 11 months, and will have two tasks only: to rebuild Gaza and to prepare to hold elections. The important point is that it will be subject to my policy, because at present I bear sole responsibility for directing the policy of the PA and the PLO... I represent the PLO, and this is clearly stated in the reconciliation agreement.
"I am the president of the PA, and I will swear in the new government. It will not receive a vote of confidence from the Legislative Council, because it is an interim government that is directly subordinate to me. Perhaps in a few months, it will be presented before the Legislative Council, but for now it will be presented before me and will be sworn in by me. I bear responsibility for the actions of this government, so I am authorized to nominate its head. Yes, the prime minister will be Salam Fayyad...
"Salam Fayyad's government will not have a diplomatic program. He is an independent and experienced technocrat. No Arab state has received official written documents from the World Bank and from the International Monetary Fund attesting to its integrity, meticulousness and accountability like those that have been received by Salam Fayyad's government... I want a government that will produce results, not one that will bring a siege [upon us]..."
Turning to the issue of the reconciliation with Hamas, 'Abbas said: "Hamas was asked to sign the [reconciliation] document in October 2009, but it refused to do so. The question is, was it Egypt that refused to amend the document? This allegation was made against [then Egyptian foreign minister] 'Omar Suleiman, but it is groundless. It was I who refused to amend the reconciliation document... [I said that] if we open it up [for discussion, the arguments] will never end. [Eventually,] Hamas came and said: We will sign the document as it is, and [they endorsed] the initiative without any changes...
"I always said that Iran was preventing the [intra-Palestinian] reconciliation. Honestly, I never heard the Syrians saying they were against the reconciliation, but I know the Iranians were behind [the attempts] to prevent it...
"Give me a chance to establish the government as I see fit, in order to remove any pretexts for [another] siege. Because, in all honesty, it is I who bear the responsibility, not [Hamas political bureau head] Khaled Mash'al. If this government fails and there is a siege, I will be responsible, not Mash'al...
"The PA pays the salaries of 77,000 employees in Gaza every month, and finances its fuel, water, and power [expenses], as well as the health care and education systems, and everything else we need to fund in Gaza. Hamas receives money from Iran and from other sources, and spends it on its own apparatuses and people. Nonetheless, there is still poverty in Gaza.
"I want reconciliation... Before we say, 'I object to so-and-so as prime minister,' we must think about how to rebuild Gaza. In the three years since the [Israeli] aggression [i.e. the Gaza war], not a single house has been built in Gaza. The funds allocated [for this purpose] at the [March 2009] Sharm Al-Sheikh [summit] – just over $4 billion – are still lying untouched, because the international community cannot hand them over to Hamas. But it can hand them over to an interim government like the one I am thinking [of establishing]...
"The opening of the Rafah crossing is a positive step... But if we want [the crossing to be opened] fully, Egypt must honor the agreement that we [i.e. the PA] signed in 2005 with Israel, Europe, and the U.S., but not with Egypt...
"I have been serving [as president] for five years, which is about 18 months longer than the four-year term specified [by law]... [This happened] because the elections were not held, as Hamas refused to hold them until the reconciliation took place. Now we have agreed to hold elections in May [2012]. I will not run in these elections, and I do not want to repeat this statement again and again...
Regarding the arrests of Hamas and Islamic Jihad members, 'Abbas said: "I will continue the arrests in three cases: [when individuals are suspected of] smuggling arms or explosives, or of money laundering. But it is inconceivable that I should arrest someone for his political positions or [religious] beliefs, or for uttering slogans or statements...
Regarding the reconciliation, 'Abbas added: "In his speech in Cairo, Khaled Mash'al said that [Hamas] supported [the establishment] of a state in the 1967 borders. [He also said that Hamas] had given the negotiations a chance and that [although] they had failed, [Hamas] was nonetheless willing to give them another chance..."
Even If We Fail in September, We Will Not Renew the Armed Struggle
'Abbas also spoke of the September initiative: "The [initiative of] appealing to the U.N. has been set for September for two reasons. [First of all], last September, [U.S. President Barack] Obama explicitly said, 'I want to see a Palestinian state that is a full member of the [U.N.] General Assembly next September.' The Quartet said that the negotiations must start in September and end in September... And our government, the Salam Fayyad government, has pledged that by September, all of its institutions will be ready [to function as] state institutions... And they are 100 percent ready now...
"The [preferable way] to attain an [independent] state is not by appealing to the U.N., but through negotiations... But if there are no negotiations, there is no choice but to appeal to the U.N... This is important, and it is an appeal to the world and to America. If America has another option, let [America] propose it... You – America, Europe, and Israel – are welcome to suggest an alternative. Tell me where I went wrong. You are punishing me for a sin I never committed. You want me to follow the path that Israel wants me to follow, but I cannot engage in negotiations without a source of authority and without a settlement freeze...
"The U.N. procedures are somewhat complicated, because the U.S. has veto power in the Security Council. The General Assembly has procedures that would allow us to attain a state, but not one that is a [U.N.] member, so it's a lengthy business... If I appeal to the U.N. and meet with [representatives of] 192 countries, and get a resolution from these 192 countries, that is not a unilateral move...
"We went to South America, and received recognition [for a Palestinian state] from 10 countries there. We have 116 states [that already recognize Palestine], and need eight more to obtain the two-thirds' majority required for recognition by the U.N.... Ten Western European countries have raised the level of [our diplomatic] representation..."
"My term as president [officially] ended before January last year, and I have served an additional year and a half [since then]. Now, I am working to organize elections. If they take place today, my term [in office] will end today... if they take place tomorrow, my term will end tomorrow, and if they take place in nine months, my term will end in nine months. If there are no elections and nothing happens in the U.N., then something else will happen – but nothing dramatic.
"What will we do if we fail in the U.N.? I cannot make this decision today, [but] we will not [renew] the armed struggle, because it brought destruction upon us. I am against it, because it destroys the country. After we appeal to the U.N., our options will be discussed [in the framework of] the Palestinian leadership. [But] I hope we succeed [in the U.N.]...
Further stressing his opposition to armed struggle and his support for non-violent protest, 'Abbas said: "The Arab uprisings that began a few months ago have all taken the form of non-violent intifadas. We do not oppose nonviolent intifadas, and in the 1980s and early 1990s, we had a nonviolent intifada [of our own] which led to the Madrid Conference and the Oslo Accords. But the second intifada, which began in 2000 and ended around 2005, was an armed intifada that brought destruction upon the land, the infrastructures, and the people. It destroyed everything, and that is why I said I was against an armed intifada...
"Historically [speaking], Fatah was the one that launched the armed struggle, when it decided, in 1988, to endorse [U.N.] Resolutions 242 and 338. And after Abu 'Ammar [Yasser Arafat] went to Geneva and announced we would stop the [armed] operations, they stopped, based on an official Palestinian decision..."
"If even one demonstration is held against me, I will not let [the demonstrations] continue. I will step down first. I will not have [even] four, 10, or 20 people take to the streets and say, 'There is no choice but to overthrow 'Abbas.' I will leave [my position] before that [happens], because if I don't, I will be going against the will of the people... We had demonstrations on March 15. [Protesters] flooded all the Palestinian cities, crying 'No to the Palestinian schism.' The very next day, the [PLO] Central Council [convened], and I announced my initiative to visit Gaza, and the whole thing [i.e., the schism] ended. In other words, we [comply] with the will of the people...
"I promised the Palestinian youth peace and security, and I believe I kept that promise quite successfully in the West Bank. The Palestinians there enjoy full security, and despite the occupation, it is quiet there. I promised some economic development, and that has been achieved. There is growth and development. I [also] promised independence, and this I have not yet managed to achieve, but I hope to achieve it in the coming months. Otherwise, it is I who will be held accountable..."
The Issues of Borders and Security Can Be Resolved in Two Days
'Abbas also discussed the negotiations with Israel and the Arab peace initiative: "If negotiations are renewed, I will agree to [join] them tomorrow and to discuss two issues: [first,] the borders and land swaps – an issue that can be resolved in two days, if there is goodwill – and [second], the security issue, which I resolved with Olmert, [which resolution] Bush also approved. According to [the understandings we reached], after we sign an agreement, there will be a third-party presence [in the Palestinian territories]. I suggested this because Israel is afraid of us. I asked them to choose who [the third party] would be, and they chose NATO. There is no problem with [NATO] coming over for however long it wants, in order to protect Israel and help me...
"[But] now, [Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin] Netanyahu is opposed to both these issues. If they want to renew [the negotiations], we will have to discuss these two issues. If we discuss the borders and security and resolve [those issues], I am sure we can resolve the other issues, as well, from the refugee [issue] to the water [issue], etc.
"When we first began negotiating, Olmert rejected the refugee issue, [but] eventually, we agreed on the return of the refugees, though we did not agree on the numbers...
"Without Jerusalem as its capital, there will be no Palestinian state. In the [March 2010 Arab League] summit in Sirt [Libya], the Arabs allocated $500 million to consolidating the status of Jerusalem, though we have received only $30 million...
"The Arab [peace] initiative has not been shelved and will not be shelved. It is the wisest Arab [proposal] in the history of the Arab-Israeli conflict. It must stay on the agenda, and anyone who suggests removing it from the agenda... wants war. The Arabs do not want war, and that is why we want [the initiative] to stay on the agenda...
"My talks with Netanyahu were not serious. We never even discussed the borders... We talked only about security, that is, about the presence of the Israeli army along the Jordan River and on the [adjacent] hills, in light of Israel's fear of an Iranian invasion. That is [Netanyahu's] rationale... At the end of the talks, I asked him if he would freeze the settlements, and he said no, so I said goodbye..."
The Issue of Dahlan Will Be Decided in Court
'Abbas discussed the circumstances of Muhammad Dahlan's dismissal from the Fatah Central Committee: "Dahlan's dismissal from the Fatah Central Committee could not have been the result of Hamas pressure, because we do not do what Hamas pressures us to do. The Dahlan investigation began a few months before the reconciliation [with Hamas]. He was accused of involvement in assassinations, but there is no proof of this. There are also [investigation] files dealing with illegal gains and other matters. At the moment, I cannot determine if these [allegations] are true.
"Following an investigation, the [Central] Committee ruled that Dahlan must leave Fatah, and these issues will remain open until their veracity is determined for good. This is a legal matter, and only a court will determine what did or did not occur. It is a matter of life and death.
"Dahlan did not stage a putsch against us [i.e. the PA]. Perhaps he wanted to form [his followers into] groups. I do not want to respond to statements he made at a moment of anxiety and anger over his dismissal from the movement. It would be a mistake to respond to his statements.
"The decision to dismiss him stands, and other decisions can be discussed in court or in the Illegal Gains Committee. The head of the Illegal Gains Committee, also known as the Committee for Combating Corruption, is Rafiq Al-Natshe. I [appointed] him to deal with certain issues, so that [individuals suspected of corruption] might be asked to account [for their actions], from myself on down to the last of the citizens. [Al-Natshe] is authorized to question me; [in fact,] the committee that investigated the Dahlan affair questioned me twice about all the [relevant] issues, and its members sat [and spoke] with me. That is the law, and I had to submit [to the questioning]. I am not above the law.
"Dahlan was summoned for questioning in Ramallah, as the law requires, and was given two weeks [to report for questioning]. When he did not respond, he was given one [more] week. In fact, he was given four [more] weeks, but still did not show up. [So] the committee took a decision in his matter. I oppose [the idea that the investigators] must go to Amman [to question him]. He must come here, but he said he did not want to because he was afraid he would be arrested.
"However, I would never do anything like that, because [Dahlan] is a Central Committee member, so I cannot have him arrested before he is tried or convicted. This is also true for members of the [PLO] Executive Committee, and for anyone else. I cannot have [Dahlan] arrested unless the investigation committee rules [that he must be]. He can return [to Ramallah] whenever he wants, and only a court can have him arrested, not me... Our court is [after all] respectable, to a certain extent...
"Dahlan has the right to full parliamentary immunity, and we will not infringe on this right. He was a member of the Central Committee, and was removed from it. It is possible that [the issue] was overinflated. There is no connection between his immunity in the Legislative Council and his ejection from the movement. He will remain a member of the Legislative Council, and this has nothing to do with us.
"I have no intention of firing officials or party members close to Dahlan. That would be an act of revenge which I have no intention of committing. Anyone who wants to resign for Dahlan's sake is free to do so...
"An [independent] armed militia will never emerge as long as there is a respectable security [apparatus] and a sober public. [Fatah's] members are sober, and nothing of this sort can happen among them.
"There is a new culture in the West Bank, completely different from the culture of the past. This is not a populist statement, and I am not trying to be popular. When I submitted my candidacy for the presidency, I said I was against the [firing of] rockets and the armed intifada, and that anyone is free to vote for or against me. That is why I did not get 99.9% of the vote, but only 62%.
"As for Dahlan's claims that the 2006 elections were unconstitutional... [let me say that] one of the people who violated Fatah's [regulations] was Dahlan [himself], who formed his own list. This was one of the reasons for the spilt within Fatah, which we managed to heal at the last moment, but which lost us the elections..."
The Palestinians Will Not Interfere in the Events in the Arab World
'Abbas emphasized that the Palestinians must not interfere in various conflicts in the Arab world: "We agree with the Lebanese president, prime minister, and parliament speaker that we must work, by every means, to keep the Palestinians well away from the internal [conflicts] in Lebanon. During my visit to Lebanon in 2005, I spoke with [former] president Emil Lahoud, President [Michel] Suleiman and Prime Minister Najib Miqati. We [Palestinians] said in all honesty that we did not want to be part of the Shi'ite-Sunni or Christian-Muslim conflicts in Lebanon. We said that we had nothing to do with these [conflicts], and [our interlocutors] agreed with us completely. We have taken practical measures, and recently, following the events in Syria, I [instructed] everyone not to interfere and not to be part of the conflicts.
"I think we have been very successful [at this], but there are some who try to sabotage [our efforts], such as Ahmad Jibril, who sent [Palestinians to demonstrate in Syria], exploiting the sacred remembrance days of May 15 [Nakba Day] and June 5 [Naksa Day, as a result of which] several people were killed. [At their funeral the following day] in the Yarmouk refugee camp, 14 people were killed, and he blamed me for this. I had nothing to do with it. We do not want to interfere in these matters or to be party to them. Iran is the one controlling Ahmad Jibril, as is Syria. Both of these [countries] were behind his actions."
On the issue of the Palestinian refugees in Lebanon, 'Abbas said: "Improving conditions for the [Palestinian] refugees in Lebanon does not in any way conflict with the right of return or with their resettlement. If someone comes [to an Arab country] to work, and subsequently [is granted] the right to return, he will return to his homeland. But in the meantime, he is [able at least] to make a living... It is not a problem if someone has purchased a home in Lebanon; this does not mean he has settled there for good. It is a mistake to think that anyone who settles in Lebanon – such as a Syrian or an Egyptian – becomes Lebanese."
Finally, addressing the issues of Syria, Jordan and Iran, he said: "As for the events in Syria, we are following them without interfering or expressing any opinion. We leave it to the Syrians to decide and to express their own opinions. We do not want to be anyone's patrons. The Arabs all love to be our patrons, but I do not want to be theirs.
"That is why there are no Palestinians demonstrating in Syria. A Palestinian living in Syria cannot foresee what will happen there. The situation [there] is serious. There are many demonstrations and conflicts, and I hope all the [people's] requests will be considered and discussed. Even if it is an American conspiracy, the people's demands must be met. It is impossible to [stand by] and do nothing. The people's demands must be heeded.
"It is difficult [to believe] that a similar situation will arise in Jordan, because [this country] is stable, and, from what I hear and read, they are giving [the people's] demands serious consideration...
"We have no ties with Iran, but we will form ties with it if it refrains from interfering in our affairs. At the moment, the Iranians are maintaining ties with Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and others, supplying them with funds and with weapons for Gaza. Our only connection [with Iran] is that we have an embassy there..."
Endnotes:
[1] WAFA (Palestinian Authority), June 20, 2011.
