Seif Al-Islam Al-Qadhafi, Son of Libyan Leader Mu'ammar Al-Qadhafi, Admits Bulgarian Nurses Were Tortured

Following are excerpts of an interview with Seif Al-Islam Al-Qadhafi, son of Libyan leader, which aired on Al-Jazeera TV on August 8, 2007:

Interviewer: You have recently declared that Libya had fabricated the whole story [of the Bulgarian nurses]. Please clarify this for us. How did Libya fabricate this story?

Seif Al-Islam Al-Qadhafi: This may have been exaggerated. Journalists in France asked me about the "old guard" and "new guard" in Libya. I told them that this was a fabricated story, and that there is no such thing as an "old guard" and "new guard" in Libya, and that these are merely rumors, just like we talked about a conspiracy of the Bulgarians, when it all started. This was linked to this case, and the world inflated it. It was just a passing remark.

Interviewer: I would like to quote your exact words, because this is an essential point in our interview and in the way we understand this story. I will quote what you said in English, since the interview was held in English. You said: "We created that – the story in Libya." What can be understood from this? That the case of the Bulgarian nurses was used as a bargaining chip, while you knew that the nurses... It can be understood from this sentence that you knew the nurses were innocent, but you saw it as an opportunity to make a point to the West. You said in a subsequent interview that this was a case of extorting the Europeans, in exchange for their extortion of you in the past. We would like to understand what this means.

Seif Al-Islam Al-Qadhafi: The truth is that several days before it was all over, the European's best offer was to give just 10 million euros in order to take care of the medical condition of the children in Benghazi. They said: Forget about compensating the families, forget about entering a partnership with Europe, and so on... They said that this was their best offer. Suddenly, a few days later, there were developments, and they started making concessions, one after another. We began talking about hundreds of millions, we entered into a partnership with the E.U., which has been Libya's dream for a long time, and we received aid in... That is on the one hand. You may call this extortion, but it was they who made the rules of this game. They were the ones who began to use pressure, and who said that the deal must include this or that. They are the ones who played this game...

Interviewer: What you are talking about is not what I am asking you. I am asking you about things you explicitly said. You said: "We pressured these nurses so they would confess, even though we knew this story was baseless." This is what we want to understand, in order to close the issue once and for all, and so that no one will ask you about it again.

Seif Al-Islam Al-Qadhafi: I have answers to all these questions. With regard to the extortion, it was the Europeans and the Americans who started it. They were the ones to start applying pressure, by saying to us: "Release the Bulgarians now, regardless of your law. We don't care about your courts and judicial system. Release them now, unconditionally." This was extortion, and therefore, we have demands and conditions of our own.

[...]

The first time I heard about this case was when I was talking to a security official in the justice secretariat in Libya. He told me that there was a conspiracy, and that there was an Englishman called Mr. John, who brought in the Bulgarians and was in charge of the operation, and that the Mossad and the CIA were also involved. I asked him who this Mr. John was, and he said he was someone known to us. He said: "We turned to Interpol and said that this man was wanted, and they said they knew him." That was the story. In 2001, when the Bulgarian attaché officially asked me to follow this, I began to investigate. First, I discovered that Mr. John was a fictitious character. Who is Mr. John? When and where did he enter Libya? What does he look like? Where is his passport? There is a man by the name of Adel the Egyptian, who supposedly brought the viruses from Egypt in a refrigerator truck. Where is Adel the Egyptian? What is his full name? Where is his passport? When did he enter and leave? There is no proof that he ever entered or left Libya. These people are fictitious. So this whole story about an Israeli conspiracy... Let's get into the details to make things clear. Mr. John and Adel are fictitious, and they will always be fictitious. That's one thing. Secondly, we brought to Libya the man who discovered AIDS, Luc Montagnier. Mr. Montagnier is a member of the Pasteur Institute, which is the largest in the world. He now works in America in the most important institute for the study of AIDS.

Interviewer: He discovered AIDS.

Seif Al-Islam Al-Qadhafi: Right. When he came to Libya in 1998, the first thing he said was: "Look for the madman who is injecting your children." He said this was a case of injection. He said this without having conducted any study. He saw the situation, and said that this was a case of injecting [AIDS] deliberately. He heard that there was a conspiracy, and that people are being held in jail. After coming again in 2002 in an official capacity, he submitted a detailed final report in 2003. What was written in the final report? That what happened at the Benghazi hospital was the result of neglect and the reuse of syringes. Montagnier also said that it was not a single virus, but a group of viruses, which originated in West Africa. In his report, Montagnier proved, by reviewing case histories, that six children were infected with this disease before the nurses entered [Libya]. He also proved that a case of infection occurred after the nurses had been caught.

[...]

In 2002, the claims of a conspiracy by the Mossad and Mr. John were abandoned, and it became a criminal case, in which it was claimed that a certain element was conducting medical experiments on Libyan children, and that they needed to inject [AIDS] to 1,000 Libyan children, in order to find a cure for AIDS. Thus, we moved over from a Mossad conspiracy to companies or other parties conducting experiments.

[...]

For another thing, the issue of torture has been proven. Of course, it was not like what is now claimed by the doctor...

Interviewer: You are referring to the torture of the doctor...

Seif Al-Islam Al-Qadhafi: What the Palestinian doctor said was true. He knows. I helped him and his family a lot. In what he said, there were many lies. Not exaggerations but lies, but does this does not mean that no torture took place. There was torture by electricity. They were intimidated... They were threatened that their families would be harmed.

Interviewer: Is that a trivial matter, in your view?

Seif Al-Islam Al-Qadhafi: It's not at the level the Bulgarians talked about. The Bulgarian nurses said, for example...

Interviewer: What more do you want? Where is the exaggeration? The Palestinian doctor talked about a horrible incident, which I don't want to repeat here, but he talked about torture... Even if we suppose... Let's ignore the part you claim is not true... Torture by electricity, threats to harm his family, and so on led the doctor to stand up in a press conference, and publicly declare that he would sue Libya and put it to shame.

Seif Al-Islam Al-Qadhafi: First, with regard to the issue of torture, the Al-Qadhafi Institute exposed this many years ago. We wrote a report on this and distributed it worldwide. Did anything happen? Secondly, before their release, they all signed a document in which they waived their right to sue.

[...]

What happened was that the case was manipulated. But on August 3, 2007, Richard Moran wrote in the Herald Tribune that in America, there were 250 cases that were manipulated by the police and therefore, the verdict was wrong.

[...]

Interviewer: "America is an accused body, banished from the mercy of Allah, which deserves nothing but curses." These words were uttered only three months ago, not by just anybody – by the deputy speaker of the Libyan parliament. How would you describe it?

Seif Al-Islam Al-Qadhafi: Of course some people curse America, other people support America, and yet others support the theory of Montagnier...

Interviewer: You say we must open up to the West, yet at the same time, a high-ranking official says that this is undesirable. Obviously, there are differences of opinion.

Seif Al-Islam Al-Qadhafi: Of course, there are differences of opinion. We don't all come out of one copy machine, with the same thinking and the same costumes. Of course there are differences of opinion.

Interviewer: But isn't this an obstacle?

Seif Al-Islam Al-Qadhafi: First of all, there is no such thing as "old guard," and nobody dares to drag Libya backward. Libya is moving forward. It is becoming more democratic, and it is progressing towards greater openness, development, and prosperity. This approach is led by Mu'ammar Al-Qadhafi. Mu'ammar Al-Qadhafi is pleased with this. Mu'ammar Al-Qadhafi welcomes this, and the Libyan people follows Mu'ammar Al-Qadhafi in this process.

Interviewer: Even with regard to the issue of elections?

Seif Al-Islam Al-Qadhafi: We will conduct a reform in everything...

Interviewer: Does he support elections?

Seif Al-Islam Al-Qadhafi: First of all we call it acclamation, and not elections. For another thing, we are...

Interviewer: When you were asked if you support elections, you said: "Why not?" Listen to what Colonel Al-Qadhafi said: "Elections are a farce, and they corrupt society and the state. Any effort of this kind must be wiped out. Elections lead to the disintegration of families and society, and turn the peoples into drunks."

Seif Al-Islam Al-Qadhafi: You are talking about party elections, where each party has a candidate, and so on. But whether we call it "elections" or "acclamation" – it exists in Libya. The Libyans choose representatives by acclamation. Call it "elections," call it "acclamation," call it "nomination" – it is part of the Libyan mechanism for choosing officials. It does not matter what you call it. It doesn't matter if a cat is black or white, so long as it hunts mice.

Interviewer: But you said that the Libyan people should have the right to elect the prime minister and the president, right?

Seif Al-Islam Al-Qadhafi: The mechanism must be more transparent and more effective. A lot has been said about this.

Interviewer: The leader of the revolution is where you draw the line. You say everything is subject to change, except for the leader of the revolution, who enjoys special status, right?

Seif Al-Islam Al-Qadhafi: Of course.